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Single rail - T5 conversion


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#21 Neeek

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 02:36 PM

Good thread! I'm going to rebuild my T5 shortly, and plan on fitting it up to my Clevo with a modified single rail bellhousing (which I pick up tomorrow). Reason? Don't want to splash out $500 odd on a Dellow unit and I like doing things the hard way - it's more fun!

Redesp, regarding the pics you posted of the Dellow b/h versus the single rail one... the single rail input shaft support "hole" (or whatever it's actually called!) looks to be a LOT larger in diameter when compared to the Dellow one. I thought that the snout was smaller on a single rail than a T5 and that a T5 snout could be machined down to fit the single rail bell?

Other forums suggest that the T5 can be bolted up to the single rail bellhousing by machining the T5 snout and then modding either or both the bellhousing/T5 so that the bolt holes line up.

Thoughts? Bit academic anyway, as I'll find out what's what over the course of the weekend...

#22 redesp

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 05:04 PM

Good thread! I'm going to rebuild my T5 shortly, and plan on fitting it up to my Clevo with a modified single rail bellhousing (which I pick up tomorrow). Reason? Don't want to splash out $500 odd on a Dellow unit and I like doing things the hard way - it's more fun!

Redesp, regarding the pics you posted of the Dellow b/h versus the single rail one... the single rail input shaft support "hole" (or whatever it's actually called!) looks to be a LOT larger in diameter when compared to the Dellow one. I thought that the snout was smaller on a single rail than a T5 and that a T5 snout could be machined down to fit the single rail bell?

Other forums suggest that the T5 can be bolted up to the single rail bellhousing by machining the T5 snout and then modding either or both the bellhousing/T5 so that the bolt holes line up.

Thoughts? Bit academic anyway, as I'll find out what's what over the course of the weekend...


Looks can be decieving. You are right, the T5 extension housing is larger than the singlerail.
The single rail hole for the extension housing is actually smaller than the Dellow bell housing by about 4mm in diameter.
We initially machined the T5 extension housing down by 4mm to suit the original bellhousing... but ended up with the Dellow as i couldn't find an egineer to do the work for me OR the cost was going to be around the $400-$500 mark anyway.

Dunno where you got info regarding bolting the T5 to the single rail bellhousing. As you can see from the pics, the T5 will never line up with the single rail bellhousing.
That's why I decided to post my experience.

Good luck with your conversion. Let us know how it went
Dave.

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#23 Neeek

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:56 AM

Dunno where you got info regarding bolting the T5 to the single rail bellhousing. As you can see from the pics, the T5 will never line up with the single rail bellhousing.


I found some old info on www.fordforums.com (not the AU site) that said one guy had the snout machined down to fit, then had tabs welded/relocated onto the T5 case so they'd line up with the bellhousing bolt pattern. So that's one option. Another post somewhere else suggested that if you turn the gearbox over slightly it lines up with one hole and then with a series of strategically drilled and tapped holes you can get 3 bolted up, leaving some imagination and bodgery to get the fourth one done... but still secure and safe. Allegedly.

Good luck with your conversion. Let us know how it went


Might take a while, but I'll be sure to. I reckon it's doable with a bit of lateral thinking, and if others have done it (as they claim, although this is the Internet, so who knows?!?) it should be possible.

#24 Neeek

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 10:11 AM

OK, I now have the single rail bellhousing home and just did some measurements. Apologies for the slightly blurry pics - my camera's playing up.

I've got a spare single rail so because the T5 snout is too big to fit into the bellhousing, I whipped the one off the single rail gearbox and slapped it on the T5. Incredibly, it fits! You can get two bolts tightened up on it so it's "in place". Never mind for the moment there's no way you could actually use it, so you would definately have to get the T5 snout machined down to fit the single rail bellhousing.

Posted Image

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So first step is complete - I can mate the T5 to the single rail through the input shaft snout to dummy it up and measure.

Posted Image

Now for the good news. I actually think this is possible to do.

First of all, none of the bolts holes line up, which is nothing new. However, the top two present no significant problems whatsoever - there's loads of meat on the bellhousing face to drill and tap two more holes.

TOP LEFT:

Posted Image

TOP RIGHT:

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Two down, two to go.

The bottom holes are a little more tricky, because as we know, the holes in the gearbox line up half way across the bottom face of the bellhousing. So you can't just bolt her up. However...

I don't think there's anything stopping you from doing the following:

BOTTOM LEFT HOLE

There's plenty of meat on the gearbox tab to either elongate the current bolt hole, or even drill another one into the gearbox case. I'd imagine it will have to be of a smaller diamater than the existing one to work/fit, but you can DEFINATELY get a bolt running through the tab in the box and into a new hole in the bellhousing.

Posted Image

BOTTOM RIGHT HOLE

The same options are there.

Posted Image

I think what people forget is that the bolts holding the gearbox to the bellhousing aren't exactly "structural" - which is to say that they don't carry the weight of the box itself - that's the job of the bellhousing hole, the snout of the box and the rear gearbox mount (which I'm sure will present it's own set of issues further down the track). With the top two bolts secured "professionally" and the bottom two slightly bodged, the gearbox is NOT going to move when in use - no chance.

Bottom line? This can be done, and I reckon you can do it at home to boot. I'm going to give it a whirl.

Edited by Neeek, 23 January 2010 - 10:15 AM.


#25 deankdx

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:41 AM

heres how My transit came setup with a T5 on the early single rail bell, been driven daily like it for 5 years according to previous owner.

the snout was tuned down of coarse, and the bell and box drilled to suit bolts and nuts, its heavy to lift the combined bell and box onto the motor is all i can say, i did an engine swap, and left it as so to aviod needing a custom clutch cable for the T5 bell in the 1978 Transit i have(not finished yet.but runs again)

Posted Image

#26 Neeek

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 12:45 PM

Nice pic! Thought about doing it that way as well, even though your bellhousing is a 6-cylinder one - the theory is the same though. Looks like your bolt holes weren't tapped, and just held there with a nut and bolt, which does make things easier. Thanks for posting the pic!

#27 KLR250

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 12:46 PM

yeah, it is a good idea, just means you have to bolt the gearbox in complete with bell housing, or weld the bolt heads to the bell maybe
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#28 Neeek

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 08:28 AM

Quick update - the T5 snout is being machined down to the correct diameter. Should have it back either tomorrow or Monday and then I can dummy fit the T5 up again, mark the spots where I'm going to drill and away we'll go.

Costs so far:

$130 (bellhousing, knackered single rail, decent engine plate)
$40 (machining)

#29 Neeek

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:29 AM

For those that are interested...

Got my snout back on Monday this week, handed over the $40 and... it didn't fit. :( Hindsight tells me that instead of handing them the both the single rail and T5 snouts, I should've given them the bellhousing itself, but no matter.

I rigged up a makeshift (and completely hobo) "lathe" using some drill attachments I had and the ever-trusty powerdill and took some 80 grit paper to it on a cork board:

Posted Image

After a bit of faffing around with a light sanding, test fitting in the bellhousing, putting it back in the drill and taking a little more off, etc...

Posted Image

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We now have a T5 snout sitting very snugly in a single rail bellhousing. Perfect fit.

The powerdrill's going to attack the bellhousing this weekend. Stay tuned.

Edited by Neeek, 07 February 2010 - 05:53 PM.


#30 Neeek

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 02:56 PM

It's done.

The bits you'll need are a power drill, some really good drill bits, a little can of spray paint and... well, for now, nothing else. These are my preferred drill bits:

Posted Image

They ate through the cast iron bellhousing very quickly and easily.

Anyway, here's a pic of the bellhousing. You'll see that there's some smudged white paint on it. I basically put the T5 onto the bellhousing and then sprayed the top bolt holes so they'd leave a mark on the bellhousing. Then out came the 3mm drill bit (first of all) and I drilled some pilot holes in the middle of the paint dots, which told me where the holes on the T5 case would be when in position. Make sense?

Posted Image

And here's a quick look at the T5 from the front - you can see how much of the snout's been turned down here (you can see the mark on the case form where the snout originally covered it).

Posted Image

Next step was to the put the T5 back in situ, verify the holes I'd drilled in the bellhousing to make sure they were in the right spot, and once confirmed, out came the 6mm drill bit which I used to open them up a bit, and the finally an 8mm bit.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Time to attack the T5 now. Picked my spot on the main case and ran a 3mm drill bit through it on both sides:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Next, did the same thing as the top holes - mounted the T5 up, sprayed some paint, and off we went again. Started with 3mm holes then punched them gradually out to 8mm as before, making sure I was on target all the way.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Next, bored out the holes I'd made in the T5 case carefully:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Stood back, and here's what the inside of the bellhousing looks like:

Posted Image

So there was nothing else for it to bolt her up! I don't have any really good fasteners, and I haven't tapped the holes in the belhousing yet (haven't got the right tap & die set!), so I just used some nuts and bolts I had in a random box. Rest assured, this is not the final solution, but merely an interim fix to make sure everything bolts up as it should.

Pictures tell a thousand words...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Bottom line is that although the T5 won't mount straight to a single rail bellhousing, it can with some thought and minimal financial outlay. Everyone's got a drill and some drillbits to go with it, so the only out-of-pocket expense here has been the machining on the snout. Add to that the cost of a tap and die set in the right size (which I'll beg/borrow/steal from a mate) and four good quality bolts, and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than going shopping with Dellow/CRS.

Cheers!

#31 deankdx

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:11 PM

not forgetting, if you blow up the T5, you can still bolt up a single rail on the same bell to get by for a while. although they are getting thin on the ground these days also.

#32 ltd351t

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:55 PM

awesome work! good stuff to know and thanks for sharing it.
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#33 Ants

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:04 PM

Great thread pic up Nick,I'm sure this will help heaps of people do this conversion.

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Where all you get is cars,not adds.


#34 nathan

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:52 PM

thanks dude, i'm gonna do this on my xf once i find a box to go in it! i think i'm gonna buy and ea or eb and take the diff and box from it.

Speed doesn't kill. Quickly becoming stationary, that's what gets ya!


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#35 xwgsopalglow

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 08:18 PM

if you get a bellhousing from a 4 speed unleaded xf (clutch fork on the passender side) they have enough room on the face for the t5 just have to retap the holes in the bellhousing.

#36 xyef351

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:02 PM

Late xf 87 onwards came out with a t5, so there are bells out there for t5 to crossflow, if you cant find a complete package that is.. stay away from the early 5 speed (sigma /borg warner box) they are totally different and are crap... ea- el are the same box as post87 xf boxs...

#37 tucker

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:33 PM

It's done.

The bits you'll need are a power drill, some really good drill bits, a little can of spray paint and... well, for now, nothing else. These are my preferred drill bits:

Posted Image

They ate through the cast iron bellhousing very quickly and easily.

Anyway, here's a pic of the bellhousing. You'll see that there's some smudged white paint on it. I basically put the T5 onto the bellhousing and then sprayed the top bolt holes so they'd leave a mark on the bellhousing. Then out came the 3mm drill bit (first of all) and I drilled some pilot holes in the middle of the paint dots, which told me where the holes on the T5 case would be when in position. Make sense?

Posted Image

And here's a quick look at the T5 from the front - you can see how much of the snout's been turned down here (you can see the mark on the case form where the snout originally covered it).

Posted Image

Next step was to the put the T5 back in situ, verify the holes I'd drilled in the bellhousing to make sure they were in the right spot, and once confirmed, out came the 6mm drill bit which I used to open them up a bit, and the finally an 8mm bit.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Time to attack the T5 now. Picked my spot on the main case and ran a 3mm drill bit through it on both sides:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Next, did the same thing as the top holes - mounted the T5 up, sprayed some paint, and off we went again. Started with 3mm holes then punched them gradually out to 8mm as before, making sure I was on target all the way.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Next, bored out the holes I'd made in the T5 case carefully:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Stood back, and here's what the inside of the bellhousing looks like:

Posted Image

So there was nothing else for it to bolt her up! I don't have any really good fasteners, and I haven't tapped the holes in the belhousing yet (haven't got the right tap & die set!), so I just used some nuts and bolts I had in a random box. Rest assured, this is not the final solution, but merely an interim fix to make sure everything bolts up as it should.

Pictures tell a thousand words...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Bottom line is that although the T5 won't mount straight to a single rail bellhousing, it can with some thought and minimal financial outlay. Everyone's got a drill and some drillbits to go with it, so the only out-of-pocket expense here has been the machining on the snout. Add to that the cost of a tap and die set in the right size (which I'll beg/borrow/steal from a mate) and four good quality bolts, and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper than going shopping with Dellow/CRS.

Cheers!


is this stickyed yet? ? ?

keep driving it if it throws a rod you know it was a bearing


#38 Tommy

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:50 PM

tucker you should delete those pics from the quote lol
away until jan 16th

#39 Ants

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:52 PM

Late xf 87 onwards came out with a t5, so there are bells out there for t5 to crossflow, if you cant find a complete package that is.. stay away from the early 5 speed (sigma /borg warner box) they are totally different and are crap... ea- el are the same box as post87 xf boxs...


This thread is relating to t5 to clevo.

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Where all you get is cars,not adds.


#40 jeffb5.8

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 09:16 PM

If this get Sticky can you delete all the normal post & chat (Mine included) so it is just the relevant detail for a cleveland




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